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Mental disability, Eugenics, and Vegan Politics.

So I just mentioned in my girlfriend that some people including Peter singer openly say they draw an ethical line and they say if human cognition is below this line human cognitive ability human intelligence below this line then human beings can be killed or eliminated why did this come up because we’re talking about veganism in case you think we only talk about veganism on the Internet and I was pointing out that there are people who basically feel that some animals should have animal rights that’s very common it’s very calm there are people who feel that monkeys should have animal rights but not cockroaches there are people who feel dolphins should have animal rights but not goldfish there are a lot of people for the way that there’s some line where it’s like above a certain level of intelligence animals get special privileges and below that they don’t so you asked me yeah I think you just said how do you feel about that you know that humans below a certain level of intelligence right it’s okay to murder them so keeping it all the way real which is my which is my steez you know I have a brother I have a brother who has never spoken a sentence in any language he is so severely retarded he is so severely mentally incapable I’m told he can eat and you know obviously other people have to feed him he’s never had a job sir he’s only I haven’t which was a big controversy in my family it was a huge source of tension between me and my father was why did you never bring me to visit him why did my father himself never visit this brother and why was this brother’s existence kept secret from me until I was in my like mid-20s it was a big it was a big big moral thing because you get on I’m really into just doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do like if you got this son I’m sure like based on what I’ve been told he may not appreciate you visiting him like I think he’s so mentally incapacitated I think my fault this is part of what my father said my father said that he didn’t like being visited that that maybe triple you know the might not appreciate you coming around and talk to him you may not understand a word you’re saying but I do think in terms of duty and honor you know what I don’t know minimum once a year you got to go and visit your own son I’m you know twice a year like I’m not it like you know okay you’re not gonna go every week to talk to somebody who’s not even capable of maybe recognizing you or appreciating your being there you know like I understand you know I can understand that but anyway so in my own family one of my own brothers a guy with a lot of the same DNA as me has so little mental capacity that to what I’ve been told by his by his sister who’s also my sister in case you haven’t guessed yah is that uh but you know one of his sisters fascist mentality has never spoken a word in any language he’s never spoken a sentence you know he can’t he’s severely obviously you know there are animals that have speech they’re animals they have a that have sentences and have complex speech and speak ideas so you know this is if we’re actually playing this game than my own brother that would be a big question yes so who were you’re saying who are you saying it has that opinion someone in the animal rights yes if Peter singers could fit the most farmers and and to my knowledge and unless a natural vegan wants to come out and clear her name she used to you know support Peter singers vision which you’ve recently brought up and I’m not gonna demonize these people they’re a position I disagree with their position but it’s coherent it makes sense like just really briefly but the same thing within within Buddhism generally Buddhists feel that the more an animal resembles human beings the more it has human rights you know I mean so wouldest Street monkeys and elephants your elephants are quite at quite a high level and very often Buddhists will say they don’t give a damn about fish that fish just don’t count now I you know I’m not gonna demonize their normal people you know I mean these are these are most of them are good people some of them are terrible people whatever you know I mean like people live with that that’s a mainstream ethical belief you know I’m not gonna demonize that that’s I mean that’s important to say even because remember I’ve dealt with really extreme politics here in China we’re surrounded by people who are members of the Communist Party and you tell their own children that the mass murder of millions of people was okay under you know the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution and that’s normal here in China and you got to deal with that face to face I mean you can live in a country that’s full of people who support what the Catholic Church did when the Catholic Church killed millions of people these are mainstream beliefs even if they’re wrong you have to be or even if I personally think they’re wrong you know it’s not I can it’s all I can show you some simple factual proof that they’re that I’m right they’re wrong I can just talk through why I see these things the way they do but it’s so silly your question so where where do I stand on that issue now I just respond to say look let’s raise the stakes let’s talk about my own brother let’s put a human face on it right now why is my brother alive given that he was less abandoned by his own father because the Canadian taxpayer we have a system in Canada which is why the streets of Canada are not filled with mentally impaired beckers which they are in some countries like Laos like in Laos you get a sense of how many retarded people there are because you see them on the street and in Canada you don’t you know in in Cambodia get a sense of how many physical cripples there are the people with one leg because you see them on the street you know I mean in Canada we have a wealthy enough country to support an army of mentally disabled people I think the ethical decision you’re making is fundamentally very different in Canada than it is in Laos or Cambodia that is my honest answer you know what I mean I don’t think every country has the luxury the candidate has now I think in a country again I think it should be democratic and I think it should be transparent you know I don’t think it should be in a black box of issues nobody’s allowed to debate but I do think generally speaking in a country like Canada if you have that debate you’re gonna make rational reasonable choices I mean you give an example one of the issues is so if you have these people who are severely mentally disabled probably you cannot take care of them close to the home of their own parents probably do it decentralizes so maybe in every province you have one or two centers of special care for severely disabled people and then if when the parents want to visit or though other relatives or friends want to visit they have to drive a long way because Canada is a really big country now the Netherlands doesn’t have that problem Denmark doesn’t no offence Netherlands is just not that big but in Canada you could have people who are separated from their children if they if they sign them up for this kind of care but long as it is that is that is a rational budgetary problem where you say well we can’t have five hundred centres don’t the disabled maybe you can maybe you can have five hundred but you can’t have 600 whatever the number is you know you’ve got to make responsible decisions of that also to be a democratic way I mean can I was mentioned you we still have controversies about women getting breast augmentation getting you know silicone breast implants paid for by tax payers part of democracy is drawing quite a bit like for psychological reasons because their psychiatrist fills it a form saying it’ll help raise her self-esteem this kind of thing and getting it paid for by taxpayers now you know different people draw the line at different places but sure I mean so you know part of my answer is I’m actually comfortable with dealing with those questions in a democratic way democracy is not perfect there are lots of examples of issues democracies can’t deal with and deal with really really badly you know John Stuart Mill his big concern was about the majority ruthlessly oppressing the minority and that is a problem when you look at today we’re just looking at Iraq when you look at countries where the majority of people may be Muslim the majority people may be Muslim fundamentalist what kind of government what quality of governance are they going to provide for atheists for Christians for Jews for other minorities I mean in Iraq there was the case of the Yazidis another heart to define religious and ethnic minority within Iraq there are problems with the majority both minority but it’s an interesting counterpoint to note that a lot of the time you have a totally helpless minority of people like mentally disabled people they have no ability to form a union or have lawyers you don’t whoa bargaining on their behalf or something they have no ability to equal the lobby government or play the games other vocal noorie’s my too but I can really give credit democracy is good at some things bad at others the sewage treatment democracy does not handle super very well you know you can make an argument that maybe dictatorships are better at dealing with sewage treatment you know it is funny the way those things go but you know I think that’s actually a very positive thing and can done other other wealthy western counties are positive example that do I think though I mean what I’ve lived in Laos I’ve lived in Cambodia I’ve been involved you know in my small way and humanitarian work in politics and everything there and those are very different art decisions you have to make and you know I have a remember saw one documentary about dealing with mentally disabled in insane people people quite likely had schizophrenia in some poverty-stricken areas of Africa I remember a documentary that looked at it and you know then you couldn’t you get into very different very hard questions yeah yeah that’s your question yeah yeah I think it’s just a case-by-case basis like what exactly the disability level is right yeah I mean it is good that in civilized society is like in Canada you get you can pay for the treatment of these people for their whole lives but that’s what we do yep and and somebody has to draw the line to Mona to somebody else to said how are you actually gonna deliver those services and but I just mentioned my approach here again is not a rights-based approach you know my approach I think a credit come I would say it’s just deontological the question is what can we do for them how are we gonna decide to do what we’re gonna do for them and you know how do we but it’s just about an ethic of care and the most fundamental idea here is doing the best you can and recognizing that in a third-world poverty stricken post world country like Laos the answer of doing the best you can may be may be totally different I read I don’t know if ever mention this to you there was a heartrending account of a young girl who was sold into sex slavery in Laos and came back with her mind completely broken and the conditions that were described that she was living in F XI was returned to her family her family had had a wooden addict probably the house was wood you know I can I can imagine ever living allows the type of house this was so in the upper story they chained her to the wooden post that supported the the wall and what this article described was all day you know with no particular sleeping schedule she would alternate between lying on the floor sleeping passed out curled up in the fetal position screaming and shakin constantly screaming and shaking and running in a straight line you know bovis is pulling on her chain but running as if trying to escape that was how she responded to the experience of being sold into sex slavery and obviously rape repeatedly what have you and the other thing that’s that’s eerie about this if you’ve ever done research on this this area you can interview not dozens but hundreds of young women who went into prostitution at the same age under the same conditions and who even worked with the same pimps because the same pimps work with how do at the same brothel you know what I mean and didn’t respond to the experience in that way at all you know but this this young woman totally mentally collapsed and the question was what can we as lotion society zap our researcher what can we do for this young woman keeping her chained to a wall chained to a post this is not a great solution putting her into a hospital in Laos may be worse let me say if you go to the hospital you know I mean like it’s not I mean what what can we do with cases of extreme mental disability or extreme trauma or extreme insanity mental incapacity without you those are those are really hard questions and I don’t think the Communist Party allows answers but it’s a part of the role of democracy again I don’t see this in a human rights perspective I see it in okay so you have the demos come together and trying to make sober decisions of okay what is the best we can do how we how are we gonna do this and you know in Canada we do have some very generous programs you can see programs about disabled people playing ice hockey you know getting disabled people out and plague them on the ice and you know they can’t wear skates cuz they’ll get you know that’s too dangerous but you know where you give them special shoes and they can shuffle them out of the ice and you have a whole bunch of D poultry there are some there are some very generous things we can do but you know between that and you know actually having someone chained to a wall you know a metal and metal and wood and you know I mean obviously this whole conversation happens in the shadow of Adolf Hitler the reality is the the eugenic policies that they don’t feel they’re engaged in of you know actually exterminating mentally sable people there’s a very interesting history that how that how that came about how the decisions were made I think I think that was the sobering moment for Western civilization to look and say okay either we’re going down this eugenics path or you know or what what does it mean to take responsibility for the fact that in any given society a certain percentage of people are never going to be able to contribute there never be able to hold a job and pay taxes and we got to look at our amassed wealth as taxpayers and just ask ourselves what can we do for them expecting nothing in return and again to keep it all the way real you know there’s also a sense in which that’s not altruism because there’s a sense in which we don’t want to see those people on the street we don’t want to see them begging on the street corners and that is indeed partly for our sake not for their say well some do I mean some do I think I think you know a Peter Singer and someone that’s that’s a real question some do Peter Singer is Pro murder he says if you don’t reach a certain target oh I’m certain with my brother he would support murdering my brother yeah keeping it all the way real about us yeah

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