Vegan Food Business Strategist Plant Based Solutions Agency Founder David Benzaquen

[UltraVid id=101 ]You’re listening to the listen up show doorknob entrepreneur pocket I’m Mitchell Chad row your host today on show 0 for 3 today we’re here with David Penzer Quinn founder of plant-based solutions a degen food business strategist brand management and marketing agency for plant-based consumer product companies headquartered in New York we are a brand management and marketing agency acting as an outsourced chief marketing officer for consumer products that are plant-based friend is your business it’s your families your life let’s get started David started out in the business working for an animal protection nonprofit and as a natural products broker but in 2012 he founded the plant based business the company offers a range of services for pre market startups through two huge global brands including opportunity assessments business planning and forecasting new product development marketing research brand creation and a full range of marketing planning and execution in this show will discuss branding product development finance and operations push marketing versus pull marketing berroco versus agency models and scaling revenue overhead and expenses the pros and cons of working with distribution companies and brokers digital marketing social marketing in-store samplings an event packaging design and using employees versus outside contractors and much more we sign up to my email list for the latest special offers exclusive for our listen up show startup entrepreneur podcast audience at Mitchell Chad road calm / sign up I have been providing business advice resources in hell to entrepreneurs for over 20 years and i’m looking forward to helping all of you sign up for my email list again at mitchell chad road calm / sign up I will provide you with full transcript for each interview my ebaugh 30 tools to start up the startup checklist and many other education and training materials all back at mitchell chad road calm / sign up now enjoy the show hey David welcome to the show thank you so much for having me Mitch so I’m excited to be here no that’s great David what is the one thing that contributes most to your success so it’s really about landing where I want to go and then working backwards you out how to get there I have been my career wanting to influence through the word the world and make it better for people’s health the environment animal protection and by figuring out how people come to come to eat come to experience those behaviors I’ve been able to map out what areas in my career to enter and that’s been more exciting for me than anything has been to figure out where I can make the biggest difference so how did you actually come up with this idea how did you tell any idea yeah so I worked for nearly a decade in the animal protection nonprofit world and I was very passionate about that work I felt that the people I was working with were incredibly impactful and compassionate and hard-working but I realized that everybody who was working in the space was using the same approaches to solving the problem of how our eating behaviors affect the world and it was also through a method of push marketing rather than pull marketing we were so tell us a little bit about the difference between the two and how that accurately helped you you know come up with the idea sure so push marketing involves educating somebody about what they should do and whether its buying a product or changing a behavior and then hoping they’ll do it and unfortunately education has been proven in consumer psychology research to be one of the least effective ways to change behavior on the converse pull marketing is where you make something that is attractive and desirable and put it in front of somebody and allowed them to embrace it in an empowering way through their own free will so by leaving the world where I was educating people by the problems with our food system and moving to a place where I’m making delicious better options accessible and desirable through marketing and branding I’m able to attract people to try these things and be excited about it on their own and they’re much more likely to change the behavior our startup round for all your hosting needs head on over to Mitchell Chad Road calm / hosting Mitchell Chad road calm flash hosting for all your web hosting need who do you use to host this website so now you started the business back in 2012 and so we’re almost five years into it in June and so how do you actually make money selling what is your business model sure so we work in three ways we offer hourly consulting for early-stage entrepreneurs who aren’t quite ready to jump into the plunge of a bigger commitment we do project-based work where we will have a flat fee for a certain amount of work like putting together a business plan or packaging design or something of that nature and then for our larger clients we will work on a retainer where we are acting as a significant member of the executive team helping to plan their strategy and manage all of their marketing in the world so who are your typical customers or your end or their end users who would be your typical person that would approach you for work to give us an idea in terms of you know how that looks sure so our typical client can range anywhere from a brand new entrepreneur who’s looking to start a business with a plant-based food products or or supplement product to something of that nature or it could be somebody who has a very established business we’ve worked with some of the largest food companies in the world to develop new product areas in the plant-based space and we can work with them at any stage to help them get ready for market or to be successful in their execution yeah can you give us an example of one successful brand that you’ve been able to help that may be readily known to the audience sure so one brand that we worked with for a long time is called garden and they are a plant based protein company that makes over 30 different meal options for eating more plant-based protein from plan chicken and beef and pork and fish alternatives in the frozen aisle of your supermarket and we helped with them with field marketing with social media marketing PR and events and all that kind of thing so you don’t actually have your own product you actually help other entrepreneurs get their product to market it would that be accurate that’s true for the for most of our business we actually do have some companies that we become so involved in that we become significant shareholders and then metis the businesses with them so one company that I’m thinking of is called ocean hugger foods and the flagship product is tomatoes sushi we met the founder who is an incredible chef and he was looking for business partners who could help with the business side of his work and he wanted to focus on the innovation so we now partner with him to manage his business but primarily we are consulting and supporting other entrepreneurs with their products so talk to us a little bit about your revenue that you’re bringing in I don’t know if you have partners or not I don’t know how many employees you have but talk to us a little bit about the actual company and the structure and and and what your if you can talk to it what what the the revenue base is so I’d rather not speak about exact numbers but we are a small company we started in 2012 and we have focused on keeping our overhead low in order to bring the most efficient and effect and viable prices to early-stage entrepreneurs the traditional marketing agency model is one where there are so many employees to be able to provide the variety of services that a company will need and the newer model which is embraced by many startups is to keep overhead low by having a small internal staff and find the best resources in the market to be able to contract with on a per case basis and that’s the model we have internally my colleague Mary McGovern and I’ve on the business Mary comes from 25 years managing brands for the largest food companies in the world like Kraft and she and I set all the strategy for our clients and then if they need in social media marketing or digital marketing or in-store samplings or something of that nature we work with partners who can execute that I don’t get it yeah so at any given time clients are coming to you for a one type type project engagement or do you have other clients obviously that are retaining you on an ongoing basis if you can’t give actual revenue numbers can you talk to us a little bit about at what an average customer engagement is like and what that looks like so that the audience has a better understanding about this niche sure so I can tell you that on an hourly basis for example my rate is 250 dollars an hour if that’s helpful and when we’re doing a project a retainer based work we are calculating how many hours each person on our team would be devoting to something and discounting it for a bigger commitment and then that becomes the fee associated with that project or retainer our client you know what what it costs to work with us ranges so much based on what a client is doing we’ve had clients for them we’ve done projects for you know a few thousand dollars total and we’ve had clients for them we are a retainer for many times that so let’s talk about the one that provides the highest retainer how did you actually help them from their distribution strategy get into the various whether it be retail markets or distribute their product out into the into the you know the world so with those clients for whom we are on retainer in a significant way it is primarily a situation where as I mentioned earlier we are outsourced chief marketing officer so rather than there needing to hire on a very large staff very senior people that could help them with expertise in advertising and in every kind of marketing and then branding our team can come in at a significantly lower cost than it would be to bring in all of those people at a senior level and manage all of that we also can bring in the best resources in the market more efficiently not just because they’re not on our payroll but because as an agency we are able to negotiate exclusive rates with other agencies or other freelancers that a client could not do directly and our markup is very low so if I am working with John and John will have to hire me for branding or packaging design I think go get packaging design from one of our great creative designers at a fraction of the cost that they were charging directly and she ends up paying less to work with me and them with my project management institute integration then he would just to get the design work directly from them so how are these customers actually getting to you how are you getting the word out I mean obviously you’re doing interviews like this I’ve I’ve listened to you on other podcasts and I’ve read some articles but how do you get the word out about your company and how do the client actually come to you so primarily it’s been through word of mouth I do a lot of networking it’s just my nature to go to a lot of events and conferences and meet everybody I can I just love doing that but primarily our clients come through word of mouth we work very very hard to ensure that every client leaves happy and you know inevitably things you know road bumps can happen and when they do I am always committed to making sure that they are solved and that nobody these unhappy so that route that allows us a great reputation where people are constantly referring us business and we’ve been very fortunate for that in fact as we’ve grown I’m having to turn down a lot of work so that we can focus on projects that are not only more lucrative salsa more more impactful in the world and so we are trying to focus ourselves on doing more outbound marketing to go after the projects that we’re most excited about but the work just keeps on coming in to keep us busy well tell me a little bit about that business model because you know there are other entrepreneurs out there that want to scale up and you know it sounds as if there’s too much business how do you make the determination as to when to either hire more people or to basically limit it because you know in terms of growth businesses there’s a lot of people that obviously do want to grow considerably and they do want to Gail up so how do you how do you balance that when do you make the determination as to when to do that or just stick to you know where you’re at and that was another reason for me asking about the revenue numbers because i think that people are curious not just because of you talking about the numbers itself but to get an idea in terms of you know if they want to either go into this niche or if they were thinking about growing their own businesses you know what that actually looks like short so i think that to be honest the agency world can be a very difficult one to scale part of the challenge is that when one is early and is working with a lot of contractors their margins are very thin and that means that the more work you can keep in-house the more money you can make however if you’re early and you don’t have the revenue to be able to hire a big staff internally you have to use outside contractors so that balance between finding which people to bring in house so that you have efficiencies on individual work and which people to keep out so that you don’t have to carry a payroll as a very hard very hard balance to strike and it’s something that we’ve been learning as we’ve been going early on in my business we had a large internal team that was earlier stage in their careers and focused on a lot of executional marketing so we did social media in house we had a staff of 15 or 20 people who are going into stores and things samplings or events and that was a challenge because in order to comply with the law we’ve had a huge payroll tax and a lot of benefits we had to carry and we had to deal with managing a large team and all the complications that come with that but because the work wasn’t very highly valued our margins were extremely thin as an example I believe very strongly in honoring the people I work with so I was paying my teen twenty dollars an hour most of them were part-timers who were students or cater waiters or actors in their other career and I was paying them twenty dollars an hour which was significantly more than they were making elsewhere but it’s because I believe in doing that and our margins were so small that we were only charging about twenty five or twenty seven dollars an hour which after payroll taxes and benefit meted out to almost nothing so so where were you where are you at now in terms of the number of employees that you have internally versus let’s say contractors on the outside and then to follow up on that I know that earlier in your career before this company you were a broker in this particular area and you had mentioned about the agency model so maybe talk to us a little bit about you know how you’ve evolved over these last several years and where you’re going into the future where do you see the business and the niche yeah so as we changed our model to focus more on strategic work where we could provide greater value to our clients and create greater greater margins for ourselves at the same time we have we have through attrition allowed the team to dwindle down we moved away from doing all the execution work and focus entirely on the strategic work and now my company internally is Marion and I and the two of us bring a lot of experience and are able to provide a lot of high-level value to our clients at a significantly reduced payroll costs and it would have been if we had all those people we had previously and we’ve been doing that model for about three years now in terms of the evolution of our business and and it’s in and as your is she a co-founder or is she in terms of just your structure because we talked a little bit about partnerships and you know bringing in people that maybe complement our own strengths to to sort of help us in other areas so what does she bring and how is it structured versus maybe were your strengths life sure so Mary is an employee and she is involved like a partner and something someday that takes that that I consider extremely essential to the business she brings 25 years and experience managing us in the largest company so she started at General Foods which later became craft and she worked at Ocean Spray and Duracell in extremely senior positions managing bransworth literally billions of dollars and when I started this business I didn’t have the traditional background that many people in marketing and branding have and so in order to cut my teeth and proved that we had the chops to do this work bringing somebody with such brilliant and such experience was really helpful to establish ourselves and show people that we were serious about what we do so at any given time how many clients realistically given the fact that it’s just you and her on the inside and you rely on let’s say outside contractors or other people to help you realistically a business that’s obviously scaling up versus a you know a solo practitioner if you will how how many clients can you you know can you handle at one given time or in a year’s time at their own retainer sure so we tend to have between two and three significant retainer clients at a time and then three or so project basis works that are you know two three month projects and then a couple one-offs order things at a time and so can you give us an idea in terms of I know that you had talked to just generally about some of the numbers in terms of your hourly rate and but you know I’m a company I want to go into this niche which is obviously you know the vegan market and i’m looking to sort of bring my product to market get it in supermarkets etc what can i expect what are the expectations and someone like myself coming to you and saying gee I like for you to help me soup to nuts bring this to market what would I be expecting to to pay someone like yourself in doing that so I tell folks beyond just our cost I tell folks that have been looking to launch a food or supplement or cosmetic product into the natural channel so into health food stores in those kinds of places if you want to launch really effectively in one region and then scale from there I tell people that they should expect to spend a quarter million dollars if they want to launch like let’s say you wanted to tackle whole foods and the natural health food stores in the Greater New York National area for six months and the strategy i recommend to people is that you take that smaller number of stores you get into them and you focus entirely on driving sales as aggressively as possible in those areas so you can prove that with enough support the sales could multiply dramatically as you expand into other stores and then you go raise capital if you need to you don’t want to so but yeah one of the questions that I had for you personally was you know how you actually came up with the idea which we talked about and then how you actually tested your own idea in terms of what you were doing but how do you how do you make that leap of goodwill or good faith to say to a potential customer coming to you you know spend X number of dollars I mean you know before you know fully launching to you know to break into the business I mean a quarter of a million dollars you know how do you help them sort of test the idea first so that’s the great thing about doing a proof of concept but we’re also doing a lot of research on the marketplace and on the competitive set of products they’re in so somebody comes to me and says I want to launch for granola I might tell them that the very challenging business to be in because it’s such a saturated market and I’ll probably encourage them to consider other options if somebody says to me they want to create the first you know I had somebody come to me and want to create the first probiotic protein powder a long time ago before it was so popular now I thought that was a brilliant idea and those kinds of things are so innovative and so in demand there might be a greater opportunity so one of the first things we do with the company is analyzed the marketplace to understand how big the demand is and how big the opportunity is and also assess what the competitive environment looks like and what the best ways to reach consumers were be maybe they would sell through stores may be online maybe to other businesses and understanding those opportunities and what lies ahead so they can plan accordingly is essential decided to decide if the business is viable and worth pursuing and so we work with them to make that determination first yeah you know the the flip side of success is struggles and sometimes failures and we sort of you know have to restart back up again so can you tell us a little bit about some of your own struggles in learning the business back in 2012 and how that’s kind of changed over time absolutely I’m very transparent about these things because I love working with early-stage entrepreneurs to explore and figure out how they can fail quickly and often until they don’t anymore so I started as a broker actually because in order to prove myself in this business I needed to do something that people were willing to hire me for and brokering is commission-based sales work and so because you only get paid on your success people were more than happy to hire me for that as opposed to hiring me for works that they would have been paying upfront without knowing the results and in the natural food industry the typical broker gets about ten to fifteen percent of the products that products they sell to a store so as an example I’m selling a product that I’m selling for three dollars that will retail for six roughly and it’s a case of six units and i sell one case a week to a store then it’s an then it’s a $18 paste that i’m selling and i’m making ten to fifteen percent of that but it might take me an hour to to chase down the manager of that store on the phone or in person and get in the reorder so i might be making a dollar eighty or two or three bucks for an hour to of work that was a very difficult business model and the reason that brokers are only successful if they have dozens and dozens of lines with some that are carrying the vast majority of their revenue the biggest sellers because I was early I worked with very small brands in very small stores my clients were thrilled because we were getting them into so many stores that nobody else was paying attention to and because for them the sales were very good but on my end I was a disaster and I could have chosen to pursue expanding that business and continuing to bring on more and more clients but I decided that for starters I actually find that broker model really troubling because I don’t like the fact that one can’t pay attention to the earlier businesses I’m in this business for innovation and to launch the next thing that will change the world and I do that if I have to focus only on the established brands that are already making me a lot of money so it was your goal not necessarily to to grow exponentially because again everybody has different goals with their business I mean realistically between you and and your employee and and the number of people that you could just realistically handle at any given one time you’re not going to be able to sort of scale up and be able to handle hundreds of clients so that might not be your goal but maybe somebody’s is and so what do you tell them in terms of you know where they could take their own business so we are scaling a lot actually and we will be doubling our team size within the next few months we’ve already made some offers and we expect to bring on two to three more people by the end of 2017 and then to continue to grow from there we’re actually at a pivot point this is something that might be interesting for your listeners to think about it we’re at a pivot point where we are meeting more people to handle the work but we are also close to generate enough revenue where we can comfortably say that we can bring those people on so it’s an interesting time where we have to do as much as we can to bring in the revenue and soon we’ll be at the point where we can bring in people and because Mary and I are extremely senior in our experience it’ll be very helpful to bring in people who can assist with some of the more administrative tasks that can free us up to bring our high value high revenue work to clients every so is this more a hybrid is it an agency then are you evolving into something else that that you know talk to us a little bit about the different business models chores so we are certainly an agency but we are also working horizontally in other industries so we have steaks in and partnerships with retail establishments distribution companies manufacturing facilities and other things and especially investment funds where our goal is that we can take a fantastic plant based product that we think can change the world invest in it brand market launch it sell it distributed etc so we are horizontally integrating ourselves so that we can do that and make a huge difference for our clients yeah so tell me that the best business advice you’ve ever received oh man it’s a great question I think the best business advice I ever received was to know when some things not work you can be willing to pivot I changed my business model several times from when I was a broker to doing executional marketing doing strategic marketing that certainly been the most effective and the most rewarding both in terms of impact and in terms of revenue but knowing when it was time to stop and say okay it’s okay you learned a lot from this you generated a lot of goodwill and maybe some fantastic relationships with clients now it’s time to know what makes sense for your business and that’s been most important for me has been knowing when it’s time to change the model are our startups are obviously bootstrapping early on and so they have this terrific idea there obviously have limited resources so they’re going to they’re going to be very creative and resourceful in terms of testing their their um their product and they come to you do you ever buy in to their idea so in other words in terms of cost structure in terms of how they actually pay you where you know you’re kind of there’s some skin in the game for you in terms of their own success or is it a pure agency as opposed to them treating you almost like a broker model where they’re paying you for the success of their own product in getting into the stores and then obviously ultimate revenue so because we don’t do sales we’re not working on commissions however there are times on a case-by-case basis where we’ll work with companies on an equity basis or on a cash equity split or something where we’ll look at respecting the fact that they have few revenues or maybe on the other hand they don’t want to give up any equity we’re very open to those discussions we have to make some determinations based on our own cash flow of course but we’re also establishing ourselves and building for a long growth and value so there are certainly times where we’re interested in looking to do that and we can be very flexible and creative and how we can partner with people based on their circumstances talk to us a little bit about for those who are not really very familiar with vegan I mean obviously some people eat steak they love chicken and eggs and all of that talk to us a little bit about incorporating the vegan diet into our own everyday lives for those who haven’t begun to do that and and maybe want to start to try whether it be for health reasons because of their approach to animals but just talk to the the everyday person who can sort of incorporate vegan into their lives sure so I’m very happy to have been eating this way the last 15 years have been vegetarian for nearly 20 years I made the decision to originally change my diet for reasons of concern for animals but I’m extremely passionate about the incredible impact we can also have on the environment and on our own human health I think the thing that was most inspiring to me about it was that I was looking to make a difference and I cared about a lot of issues from women’s health and rights and peace and you know in international affairs and all kinds of things but what inspired me and empowered me about this work is that by making a single choice oneself even if it’s just for one day if I choose not to eat a hamburger and to eat a veggie burger for lunch today I’m saving an animal’s life I’m reducing my cholesterol and my risk of cancer diabetes and heart disease and I’m reducing the amount of greenhouse gases in the world significantly and every single time I make that choice with my fork and my dollar in the supermarket I can have a tremendous impact without needing to convince the president not to go to war in Iraq or to you know try to get all men to not abused women like there are certain things that we can’t do exclusively on our own but this is one where we are so empowered and it’s so fun they’re amazing foods out there you can explore all the new options and that’s why I love it so much but how do you how do you though the true message to give each person that you’re coming across because some people are doing it for health reasons other people aren’t doing it because of some of these other things and so how do you how do you sort of you know finesse it that you don’t turn other people off that you know are not into it because of you know political reasons or because of Cruelty to Animals even if they do love animals how do you how do you sell it even though you’re not a sales organization per se sort so like I said I did come from the education and advocacy worlds but the biggest reason I’m doing what I’m doing now is because I realized that the products that we represent speak for themselves they’re delicious they’re beautiful they’re affordable they’re healthy and they’re easy to find and that’s what excites me is that I can say to somebody you don’t have to change your identity you don’t have to decide that you’re never going to eat something again here’s a delicious awesome product put in your mouth try it out what do you think wouldn’t it be great to have this for dinner on Thursday maybe you’ll have it for dinner once a week that’s the conversation where we can meet people where they’re at not make them feel judged and let them know that we are supporting them with awesome options to make choices in a very low stress way that can be good for them in the world and there’s no pressure or expectations around it yeah and I think that when you want to try to sort of bring this to the masses and obviously make it catch on more I think that that’s a you know a populist way of doing it so in terms of the marketing research in this particular space how big is the market and you know people are always worried about coming up with good ideas in this particular space so to talk to us a little bit about you know the opportunities for others whether it be your own business or other people listening in terms of coming up with an idea in this particular vegan niche absolutely so the space is booming and you asked about the numbers the biggest reasoning is booming it’s not because of people who are going exclusively vegetarian or vegan that number is growing but the biggest growth is in people who are looking to incorporate this into their lives in a small way which is tastic so in in 2013 mintel which is a large market research organization did a very large study and they found that between one and two percent of the population is vegan meaning eating no animal products of any kind between five and seven percent of the population is vegetarian so no meat fish or poultry and then 16.7 percent of the population almost wanted over one and six people in the country are eating vegetarian for more than half their meals they’re what we call flexitarian and that’s where the real economic opportunity is and it’s also where the real impact is if I’m selling a veggie burger to a vegan I’m not making much of a difference but if I’m selling one to somebody who eats me I’m changing the world so in addition to that extremely large number over forty percent of Americans in that study said that they were aiming to reduce their meat dairy and egg intake significantly over the next year so the opportunity is huge we find that in the marketplace every day that a man for these products is skyrocketing just to give you an idea in the last few years we’ve had clients who have been invested in by leaking the wealthiest man in Asia by Jerry Yang by Bill Gates by the folks from Twitter who started the obvious corporation obvious ventures some of the richest and most strategic investors in the world are recognizing that this is the time to get into this space because we just don’t have the stability and the resources to continue farming animals the way we have and producing healthy plant-based proteins to feed the masses is really the only way we can go forward that’s why they’re betting big on minutes and you’re seeing it in the big meat companies to Tyson has invested in a vegan meat company they have started a several hundred million dollar funds to continue that growth and the CEO himself has said we’re not hedging this is the future and we’re getting in front of it so when we see leaders like the head of Tyson saying that they need to pivot away from me and towards plant proteins there’s no question that this space is exploding so I kind of look at us as a food business strategist so whether someone’s interested in vegan or some other aspect of the food chain what do you tell them in terms of resources things that they can sort of leverage and use just to get started every day to begin yeah I think that it’s extremely important that we recognize there are so many different ways to go to market and when I mentioned that quarter million dollar figure that’s an insane amount of money but thats related to how people go to market if they are going to try to compete with the biggest brands in the world on the shelves of supermarkets where there are 60,000 different products in the same store and there are so many different ways to sell to consumers so you can have a restaurant you can sell at stores you can sell online you can sell it farmers markets each of these models has different costs and different opportunities for revenue and what I’d say is the more but the more closely you interact with the consumer and the more directly you interact with them such as Sally at a farmers market or something of that nature the higher your profit will be but the less scalable the business is so if you would like to have a really big impact on a few people which is certainly admirable and you can do that through a restaurant or through catering or through farmers markets you can have even do that and you can make a very healthy margin and you can have a very sustainable happy business if you want to be the next coca-cola of healthy food then you’re going to have to invest and go and make sure that you are selling through additional channels such as the retail stores so that you can need to reach a much broader audience but the reason you’re going to need so much money to there’s so many middlemen you have to get onto the shelves you have to get distributed there you have to get sold into the store etc to not just convincing the consumer you’re convincing all the trade partners to so I think the biggest thing to realize is that there are many ways to make an impact and one should decide what their goal is if they want to be the next coca-cola or if they just want to have that personal connection where they can change a few people’s lives yeah you know very good when when looking at resources though in terms of you know testing their own idea before obviously you know going into the market going to a farmers market or doing those one-on-one type of things is really an effective way to test their idea when you agree absolutely and there are a lot of resources for people to do these things on a small scale whether it’s testing by selling and locally they’re sharing with friends and family there are also in all major cities in the country now food incubator kitchens we’re rather than producing your brownies at home and China Selden illegally because of health code violations you can rent either for a few hours for a day for a month a small shared kitchen where you can produce your product legally and with the expertise and efficiencies of the teams there so that you can produce it and get it out there that’s that you have a few ideas of in terms of you know are there commercial like almost franchisees where you know they allow people to come in and do this for a C and a flat fee per month yes so in new york city where I live there are several you can go to Brooklyn foodworks the organic foods incubator the entrepreneurs face and a kitchen hot bread kitchen there are a number of them in LA there’s local food lab they’re really everywhere and there are fantastic places because not only do you have the kitchen space at a low cost rent you forget it’s it’s bigger that’s not constant you also have workshops and educational sessions they’re putting on and they can teach you from their own experiences and your network like a co-working space where you can speak to other entrepreneurs who are facing the same challenges so it’s a really great opportunity to get involved and get to know what it’s like to start such a business that’s great and we’ll have links to all of those reason where’s David just mentioned our fastpitch Mitchell Chad Road calm / books for books audiobooks guest recommendations and the books that I read to start off each day sponsors are fastpitch my book club recommendations I get Mitchell Chad Road calm / book to see more of my recommendation and recommendations of our guests just go to Mitchell Chad Road calm / books it’s your number one resource for book reviews and recommendations so we we read a lot of books that motivate us that inspires can yet can you recommend a book for everybody in the audience made to stick and the e-myth day as far as productivity is there an app that helps you in business family or life that you can recommend insightly our wrap-up round Mitchell Chad row.com / photos for all your graphic design needs in our wrap-up we want have our audience take away three things that you feel are the most important ideas that you can provide to them one first research everything about the industry you want to go into when I started my business I did 115 informational interviews in one year to meet everybody throughout the food business and map out my path to success too as I mentioned before be ready to fail take it take the bull by the horns and pivot when needed and three really know your margins because you’re always going to have expenses you don’t expect and be ready to have to account for those and to have to change your rates as you find that out and how’s everybody going to stay in contact with you David so i can be reached at david at plant based solutions com and our website plant based solutions com we’re on twitter facebook and linkedin and we look forward to hearing from everybody is there anything imparting that you’d like to let the audience know that you think that we haven’t talked about today yeah the amazing thing about the opportunities today in the world is that young people and people in general are looking to make impact and for so long we assumes that going into the career space one could either make impact or make money there’s a new movement called effective altruism i’m a proud practitioner and i really believe that there are creative ways and non-traditional ways to make both impact and money and sometimes they’re even more effective than going to do the traditional charity work with the same cups so i encourage people who want to make a difference and be successful in their careers to go to websites like the center for effective altruism or 80,000 hours and about how they can combine their passions with their needs to survive David awesome thank you so much for everything thoroughly enjoyed it and I know the audience will as well and we’re really looking forward to hearing more about your success in the future you’ll come back and you’ll let us know wonderful thank you so much for having me hey take care now bye bye & until next time

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